Burnout, Compassion Fatigue, & Mental Health

Podcast Transcript

Nicole Winkler: Welcome to Lift Your Future, a podcast that teaches you coping skills through stories, methods and proven techniques to improve relationships and outcomes in your personal and professional life. I'm Nicole Winkler, a licensed therapist and executive coach. On this podcast, we'll share a relatable life experiences designed to help you grow. I will provide easy, practical ways to develop thoughts, feelings and behaviors to impact your life, both personally and professionally. My goal is simple to help you lift your future. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Today, we're going to talk about burnout, compassion, fatigue and mental health implications from the pandemic that we're all still very much living in today. Our guest is Robin Barnett. She is the account manager for No. She is the supervisor of accounts and education at Methodist Best Care E.P.. Really looking forward to having her on the show? Hi, Robin.

 

Robyn Burnett: Hi. I'm so excited that you're here. I'm excited to be here.

 

Nicole Winkler: Yes. So you work in business and you work in mental health. There's a lot of synergies there. Yeah. And that's really how we started bonding. Yeah, we work together.

 

Robyn Burnett: We have similar brains. We really do. We're not typical clinicians. I think, you know, if we were to go take an assessment, typical clinicians, I think, are on one end of the spectrum. And I think there's Nicole and I. We definitely have a business brain.

 

Nicole Winkler: Absolutely. And I love your business, Brian. I love picking it. I love all the reports that you do and the presentations you do for companies. And I also know that you had your third baby recently. Yeah. How old is he now?

 

Robyn Burnett: He will be three months next week, so he's joining a big brother who just turned five and a big sister who's three. So, so busy.

 

Nicole Winkler: So you lost all your marbles?

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think that might have went out the window with the first, but each time it gets worse and worse, absolutely.

 

Nicole Winkler: So is it true once you have your third? It's a whole game changer.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah, I would agree to that. People warned me about that and I apparently didn't take it seriously. So here we are. But yeah, it is a game changer. I always have said now since having him, it's not for the faint of heart or for the week because it's it's a whole nother ball game just trying to navigate everything. You know, it just it's adding to the already chaotic life I had before

 

Nicole Winkler: While I'm working full time, you know, being a full time mom. And additionally, your husband is surgery fellow? Yes. Transplant fellow. So I mean, he's hardly ever around and not not for not wanting to be, but that's the job, right? Right. He's on all the time. So you have that and then you have a pandemic, right? That happens once a century. And how have you been managing all of this?

 

Robyn Burnett: You know, I don't know, taking it day by day, but it's funny you're talking about all this. And I was thinking about when I had cast my my third. I was in the hospital and one of the delivery nurses was talking to me about all the things, you know, I was just telling her about my life. And then she met my husband and she said, You have a rock star wife in case you didn't know that. And he said, Oh no, I know. But she the whole time thought I had a nanny. She just assumed

 

Nicole Winkler: Because of all the things that you do. Yeah, I said,

 

Robyn Burnett: Oh, no, no. She said, Oh my gosh, you do this alone. I said, Well, yeah, I yeah, I didn't know that was that big of a deal. But you know, when I say it out loud, sometimes I am even surprising myself with all that I do.

 

Nicole Winkler: So do you think you just have an enormous amount of energy to get through all of it? Or do you organize yourself really well?

 

Robyn Burnett: I'm not organized at all. Ok, not. And I used to always say that I was, but I'm not. I'm pretty, you know, go with the flow. Just whatever happens happens. I like to always be doing things. So probably more so the energy piece. But no, not organized at all. The only thing I have tried to get better about is putting things out the night before. Mm hmm. You know, trying to plan my day out a little bit. So my morning isn't so chaotic because you know your mom, mornings and evenings are crazy busy. Oh yeah. And so I just try to at least plan out my morning a little bit. So I like, for example, this morning I had the kids bags laid out. I had, you know, of course I'm nursing, so I had all my pumping stuff ready to go.

 

Nicole Winkler: Five million

 

Robyn Burnett: Bags. Yeah, I'm the bag lady. I had everything organized for my lunch and my snacks because I was in the office today. Normally I've doing a little bit of hybrid at home and in the office. So, oh, that's so nice. Yeah, I think I am organized to a degree, but not near like I probably should or what would make my life a little bit easier.

 

Nicole Winkler: So your flexibility like your ability to be flexible with OK, kind of go with the flow and whatever happens, I'm

 

Robyn Burnett: Very

 

Nicole Winkler: Flexible probably prevents you from being like losing your mind. Yeah, because I remember early on in parenthood I was like, OK, it's going to go this way, this way, this way and this way. And it didn't go any of those ways. And then it just increased my stress and my anxiety so much more. And so when I learned to be a little more calm, like, guess what? They're going to get sick, of course they're sick again, right? The pediatrician should be at my dinner table for Christmas because we see our pediatrician so much. Yeah, and things like that, it was really a lot easier for me. So organization with some flexibility, I think that's a great combination.

 

Robyn Burnett: I'm incredibly flexible, almost to a fault where I can't ever stand firm on something or even make a concrete plan. And it's not necessarily that I'm waiting for something else to come up or something better and more fun. It's just I'm not really I can't really commit. So and most people who know me well know that's just how I operate. I'm incredibly flexible to the extreme,

 

Nicole Winkler: To a fault sometimes. Yeah, but if it comes down to it and hey, I have plans tonight or I can get three more hours of sleep, that's a no brainer when they get to sleep.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah. One thing I found about myself now since having cast is that I'm much more OK with saying no to people, and I'm also enjoying just being home by myself. And part of that is you had asked about in the midst of a pandemic, that's something new to me of being alone. I like being around people all the time and I'm very, very social to the extreme. But with the onset of the pandemic, I've gotten so much better about being a homebody and enjoying the things about being at home, even if it's with three crying kids. But, you know, I've I've adjusted to that and it's fine. So we're getting better with it.

 

Nicole Winkler: So what have you seen? Have you seen any trends this year in twenty twenty one, especially because the pandemic started in March of Twenty Twenty? What trends have you seen with clients this year?

 

Robyn Burnett: I think universally it's this high level of burnout. Yes. And employers don't know what to do about it. They know it. They see it. It's happening before their eyes and they don't know what to do. And often even you know on the the folks that are working managers, their working managers, so they have their own workload to do so. They're not able to even check in properly with their staff and gauge how they're doing and figure out solutions to better the situation. So it's just a really big mix of of issues right now. And I think burnout and specifically in helping professions. This whole theme of compassion fatigue, something that was a little unique, at least for me, was experiencing people having symptoms of compassion fatigue that weren't even in a helping profession historically. So people in human resources, people who were even in call centers, people who dealt with insurance claims and hearing really horrific stories from young people they were suffering and continue to suffer symptoms of compassion fatigue, which is slightly different than burnout. It's just a different subset. So those are the the big things that we keep hearing are burnout and compassion fatigue. And how do we support those folks? So they stay because of where we're at with employment?

 

Nicole Winkler: Yes. And saying, I know you're burned out, right? We care about you. We will do anything we can, but you still have to come to work. Yeah, you can't give you any days off, right? You still have to come to work because we don't have enough bodies here, right? Or we don't have the support here for our staff. So can you please come in a half a day instead of maybe a whole day?

 

Robyn Burnett: Employers are thinking outside the box for sure. What can we do if we can't necessarily match what other people are paying because we're seeing really, really high numbers coming out for compensation, which seems really nice. But for those employers that aren't able to match that, they are trying to think outside the box, what what can we do better to enhance their benefits? Mm hmm. Maybe it's offering much lower deductibles. Maybe it's or premiums. So employers putting in, kicking in a little bit more there or, you know, better retirement or better, you know, people like an EAP, he's a more robust EAP and offering more counseling sessions

 

Nicole Winkler: Or more resources.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah, or maybe actually looking at PTO, what can we do to? Better, better align ourselves with other employers or a hybrid work environment. You know, can we be flexible? What is it about their job that necessitates them being in the office, you know, five days a week? Yes.

 

Nicole Winkler: So now we know we can do that. Yes. So why aren't we doing that if it's a

 

Robyn Burnett: Possibility, right? Sure.

 

Nicole Winkler: Well, we can still measure productivity.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yep, yep. And making sure that while things are getting done and bringing in a misuse, you know, things, things like that that I think employers are just having to think outside the box with that I had seen in the paper a couple of weeks ago, I actually haven't talked to this employer, although we have a partnership with them. But Strack, I don't know if you saw, but they're actually putting up an apartment complex. This is really the first of its kind in the Omaha area, but they are seeing a need where people have a hard time finding affordable housing and also transportation issues, getting to and from work. So they're putting up a really nice apartment complex actual track that's going to be reduced to even maybe free housing for those folks that that work for Strack. Wow. Yeah. So it's something that it's something really unique, and I think it's pretty cool to to look at something like that where what are what are employees challenges outside of work, right? Is it that they can't pay their bills? Is it that they don't have proper childcare? Is it that they can't get to a bus stop or they can't afford gas?

 

Nicole Winkler: Well, it's very much like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, right? Like, do you have food on the table, right? Are you able to afford your groceries? Do you have a house that you are not behind on rent and you're not stressed about that? How are you supposed to be productive when you go to work? Yeah. If those things are not met, you're still getting a good night's sleep. If you're not, if your brain's not functioning at its full capacity. Yes, absolutely. That's a really I want to keep looking on that.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah, it's it's really neat. I like I said, I haven't talked to them personally about this. I just read it in the paper a couple of weeks ago, and I don't even know. I think it must have been in the break room because I don't even read the paper.

 

Nicole Winkler: I was wondering when you said reading the paper,

 

Robyn Burnett: I was like, That's not a regular habit, for the

 

Nicole Winkler: Record. Well, maybe maybe you picked it up during the pandemic. I don't know. No, no. But you know, there's also what this the great resignation in people asking for what they want from employers now more than we ever really have seen, I think. Yeah. And so that is another, you know, hey, you could do this or you can leave and there's other opportunities for you. What the unemployment rate is extremely low right now.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah. You know, I think it goes to fold and this is on a much bigger scale. And I'm not I'm not economic savvy, but at some point it has to bend, you know, because even though employers, you know, employees are asking for higher compensation, they're asking for for things that are stretching employers pretty thin. But then there's also these big corporations that it's it's about time that they give a little more flex to employees, whether it's higher compensation. I know locally I've talked to several people without naming any names, but in health care that are jumping ship for upwards of one hundred thousand more than what they're making. Wow. So that's that's huge.

 

Nicole Winkler: That's a lot that's so significant.

 

Robyn Burnett: That's that's something that I think employers really need to look at. I think it seems too far out of reach. But what is the cost? You know, in the, you know, the cause and effect, if we're not going to bend more, we're going to lose clients or consumers or patients or whatever the case.

 

Nicole Winkler: And having two employees at forty thousand a year, let's say that come to work don't necessarily enjoy their job. They're barely able to afford living expenses outside of their job or gas to get to their job. They likely have other things. They might have other things in common. And then you, but you hire one person at eighty thousand a year that is not worried about those things. Or one hundred thousand dollars a year. You know, you really instead of having two bodies, you have one body, but you get potentially a lot more productivity there. Yeah. And so looking at in terms of what does that work, even if somebody who loves their job and loves coming in and they're making that 80 and it's one person, you get a person and a half, sometimes with that. Yeah, and not somebody who's taking an hour long lunch and then seven bathroom trips. And, you know, just kind of trying to get through the day.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah, yeah. And there's other resources to, you know, a couple of years ago to two women here in Omaha developed a company and it's basically a model. It really catered towards working moms, but it was basically job sharing, you know, were you and I are both really, really good at this? Why do why does an employer need to hire us at full time with full time benefits? They get two for the price of one, but yet I can be. I have a flexibility. Of being a working mom and not have to work full time, so there's different ways that employers can look at hiring, it doesn't have to be your traditional 40 hours a week. Full benefits, you know? Whatever the case may be that you can look at at different options and there's a lot of great resources. But we have too many, especially in Nebraska. Being in the Midwest, we have too many traditional models that are very traditional. It's hard for people to see outside of that, but I think this is forcing them into that.

 

Nicole Winkler: Well, the pandemic? Yeah, the burnout rate. Compassion, fatigue. Yeah. People resigning. It's kind of the perfect storm, really?

 

Robyn Burnett: I know. And you know, people predicted that early on in the pandemic with the emotional toll that people were going to experience, and some even said it would be a much bigger toll than what physically the pandemic did. Yeah. And I'm not going to argue that, but we're seeing that now, and I think we will see it for years to come, for sure.

 

Nicole Winkler: I do, too. I don't think we even know yet.

 

Robyn Burnett: No, no, we don't even know. And I think also it's honest on a much bigger scale, too when we talk about people now leaving a traditional work setting to go work from home. What is that going to do to our socialization as a whole as a society? And then we also talk about when kids were going, you know, doing their their studies at home as well again. Understandably so, we did that, of course, but there are repercussions. We're seeing that now a year and a half. Yes, later of kids that had to go be in home versus socializing.

 

Nicole Winkler: Yes. Well, the socialization aspect, the academic standard aspect, I wonder what we're going to see with that if that's going to change and become lower. I have a friend who's a teacher, an elementary school teacher, and she said, You know, I have to remind myself constantly that my students haven't had the education that traditional or normal way that they normally would have. So when I'm seeing these social issues come up and they are acting like they are in second grade, I have to remember that was their last normal year at school. Yeah, was second grade. They have not had the socialization that they would have normally had in third grade in fourth grade to be to show up as I would normally expect my fifth graders to show up.

 

Robyn Burnett: And it's interesting to you have some some parents that talk about their kids that experience school before and after the pandemic, and then my kids will start school long after the pandemic started. So my son, Cedar will start kindergarten in August. So what I thought would be the normal setting for him won't be that I don't know if it'll ever be the same. I mean, I hope at some point it is, but that his his that will be his normal.

 

Nicole Winkler: Yes, normal is not. I mean, normal has always been relative, but right. I think more than anything, we've been shaken up and spun around and sat back down. And we really there's a lot of things that are not in equilibrium like we always thought or expected them to be right. So probably an important lesson for all of us in terms of what our expectations. Yeah, because when we do attach expectations to things, we can be disappointed, we can be judgmental. We can, you know, and so trying to take the judgment out of that and try to keep our emotions, especially the more what we would consider negative emotions in line, right and mellow, right? Like, OK, well, this is how it used to be. It is no longer that way.

 

Robyn Burnett: Right, right. So your girls, for example, they definitely knew a time before the pandemic what school will look like. And then during and now after.

 

Nicole Winkler: So they seem to be very well adjusted, of course, but I don't know, they have

 

Robyn Burnett: Used them up.

 

Nicole Winkler: Oh yeah, it's all because of me. It's totally because of me. We just cross our cross and recross out the exact same time. Oh boy. But yeah, I mean, I hope so. I hope I provided them this stable. I hope so.

 

Robyn Burnett: But I also know not everybody has that.

 

Nicole Winkler: Unfortunately, no, not everybody has that ability to do that as well. So and I empathize with that and I understand that. So yeah, I think teachers are doing the best that they can do and they're burned out, too.

 

Robyn Burnett: They're very burned out. And I think this is, you know, I talk a lot about health care because it's a little bit of my irony is working in health care, but what I think we're going to see, there's going to be a huge bubble when it comes to our educational system because we have a lot of employers will even. And say at the state level, so look at our state prisons, they just recently increased the pace substantially because they can't keep people. And that was something that needed to happen a long time ago, a very long time ago. But what they haven't raised the threshold on is our teachers. Yes, there's not been a substantial pay increase for our teachers and this is nationally, this is not necessarily anything in Nebraska, but we're going to have a lot of teachers walking out and that's that's a guarantee. My sister in law came from the corporate world making over a hundred thousand a year and got completely burned out of that world, wanted to do something different, give back, get her teaching certificate and teach business to high schoolers. Well, this isn't what she signed up for, either. Just like our nurses didn't sign up for this. Our doctors, you know, many people didn't sign up for this, but you've seen every other, you know, standard of labor increase based on what we're experiencing, except our teachers. Yes. So they're expected to continue to put up with all of this BS really to

 

Nicole Winkler: Mold our next generation because our kids spend more time with teachers. And these they do with us sometimes like my girls, my girls. Some days they go to school for what, seven and a half hours. Then they go to dance for three or four hours after I get an hour in the morning with them in an hour at night with them. And that's I mean, so a lot of their learning comes from other people, too. Yeah.

 

Robyn Burnett: And our youth in general are struggling. So our teachers and the students are seeing so many more fights in school. We have students that are straight up abusing our teachers by verbal and it's even gets physical and they know there's not really any repercussions to them. They can't even really suspend, you know? And so it's just going

 

Nicole Winkler: To fall further behind academically. So we need to have them here. We need to have them in a separate room. Well, then there's isolation. Yeah, but then we also like the peer to peer peers, especially around the age of, you know what, 12 ish, maybe even earlier. Now, puberty time peers become the world like peers, become kids world. It's what their peers think about them and how they are perceived by them. Authority and teachers and parents, unfortunately, kind of get the back burner. That's a normal development. Stages of development, psychosocial, that's very normal. But we also want to be aware of that. And how can we help support our teachers and give them those those directives to, hey, you don't have to be abused? You have just. But then I think the teaching profession is also so specialized that now you have to go back to school.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah. Well, but there are a lot of unfortunately, unfortunately, there's a lot of opportunities right now for people to go work from home if they want to or, you know, get out of teaching completely. And that's the unfortunate part because we don't want people doing that. We don't want people to consider doing that. And I know my sister in law and a lot of her friends are considering it because they don't see those changes happening any time soon. But I do think they will. They they have to because we have so many teachers that are leaving in Oregon, for example, they are actually hiring 18 year olds who don't have a teaching certificate to come in and substitute

 

Nicole Winkler: While

 

Robyn Burnett: That's where they're at in Oregon. So I I think that something needs to change. Otherwise, it's it's not going to be good. We're not going to have enough teachers to to teach our kids and yeah, who are our most valuable.

 

Nicole Winkler: I don't know about human being. I am. I'm not designed to.

 

Robyn Burnett: No teacher, no, I

 

Nicole Winkler: Elementary age students, home

 

Robyn Burnett: Schooling. I wouldn't be I wouldn't be in my children

 

Nicole Winkler: And working and doing a doctoral program that was that was enough for me. That was enough of a sample size.

 

Robyn Burnett: I walk into my kids daycare all the time and say, I don't know how you do it. Yeah, thank you for what you do because I don't know how you do it

 

Nicole Winkler: When your kids are at a academic daycare. Yes, yes, yes. And so it is very and my kids went to one very similar to that. So by the time they went to actual school, even though they had COVID that impacted them, I think that there's a lot of research about early education, you know, five and under education and shaping the brain and getting it ready for learning and structure and development. Yeah. And that's exactly the way we chose that, too. So I don't think our kids have been as impacted by the pandemic because they had that. I wonder, I don't know what the research says, but you know, for those students that did have that experience in their early learning years and developmental years, if that will have any impact on how how school has been in the pandemic has affected their.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah. Yeah, that would be interesting to see for sure. Yeah, but yeah, teaching would not be my

 

Nicole Winkler: Not not your Ford.

 

Robyn Burnett: No, no, no. You won't see me jumping ship to go be a teacher.

 

Nicole Winkler: What would you jump ship to go do? What would be like your if you didn't have to go back to school and you didn't have to, like, have to learn a whole nother industry, what would you do?

 

Robyn Burnett: I really the part of my job that I enjoy the most is being community facing and being a community advocate for mental health. So I I think that if I were to ever jump ship, it would be more to be a community liaison for an organization, you know, speaking the mission of a of an organization and just having that community reach depending on what what it is that I was speaking about. And if I if I knew that well enough and and could speak that, I think it would be. I enjoy that. Yeah.

 

Nicole Winkler: To impact as many people as you possibly can. I know you did a lot of that in your former role.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah, as well. Yeah. And with the pandemic, I have been very much externally faced because of people wanting mental health resources. So and not really knowing who to go to. So like, oh yeah, I think Robin can talk about mental health, and I really hadn't done that a lot before the pandemic and then just fine tuned my speaking skills to be able to really articulate why mental health is important, why we should all be talking about it, and what do we do for our next steps to better, better our community? Mm hmm. So that has only come about because of the pandemic that I see. For me personally, there were so many silver linings with the pandemic. I got to stay home with my kids, although they drove me up the wall. But you know, I got that job. Yeah, I got that opportunity because as a working mom, I would have never had that opportunity. But then also just getting that exposure of being out there, talking to people, facilitating discussion, giving presentations on a on a pretty big scale and talking about mental health.

 

Nicole Winkler: Mm hmm. I appreciated that as well about the pandemic. There were many people that reached out to me knowing I was a mental health professional and as a

 

Robyn Burnett: Clinician, we wanted that for a long time.

 

Nicole Winkler: Oh yeah, I'm like, Hey, mental health is important. Yeah, you don't have to have a major mental illness to give it attention. Like everybody has felt depression. Everybody has felt anxiety. And there are people that live with that every day before the pandemic, after the pandemic. And it goes like, I always I think I've said this in another podcast, but I think of depression anxiety on a scale of zero to one hundred and being at a 20 is uncomfortable and maybe you're a little unmotivated. Or maybe, you know, it's just harder to get up in the morning. And being at like a 90 is I want to hurt myself and I don't want to live anymore. And there's a whole continuum with with both anxiety and depression that people fluctuate on as well, right? And so getting that word out there and saying what you're feeling is this and I have found that so many people are just relieved to know that there's a word for it. Yeah, like that. Anxiety? Well, and yes, like you

 

Robyn Burnett: Said, it doesn't mean that you have to have a major mental illness to seek help. It's our day to day struggles that we could all use some extra help. It's this much bigger, bigger entity of well-being. How do we keep ourselves well so we can be more productive so we can take care of our kids so we can be a better wife or, you know, better partner, whatever the case may be, but just bettering ourselves?

 

Nicole Winkler: Well, I don't know about you, but a lot of clients I've worked with over the years, I've said, Well, just because you can power through and do it, I have no doubt that you can write, you've been doing.

 

Robyn Burnett: That's a great way to put it.

 

Nicole Winkler: Yeah, I have no doubt that you can. Just because you can doesn't mean you have to.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah, or that you don't have to alone

 

Nicole Winkler: And there support in. Let us support you. Let us give you resources, tools, maybe a deep breathing exercise that you do. Mm hmm. Is is enough to for a minute, 60 seconds of your day is enough to calm you down so you can make a rational decision and you're not going back in apologizing for it later, whether that be at work, whether that be with a spouse or does that be with a family member or a child like we can teach you those strategies like these are evidence based strategies. And I would love to do that, you know? And so it's kind of like an army like, Oh, you're right, like, I don't have this, I have to be this hard.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah, yeah. And I think also I. Have recently come to the conclusion that if somebody offers me something and that there's some sort of higher being that is telling that person to reach out, take them up on it, I have got good for you.

 

Nicole Winkler: Yeah, I've gotten really good. That is not who you were. No. Couple years ago, even no.

 

Robyn Burnett: I would always say, I'm good. Thanks for checking in. I'm fine. But now, if somebody says, Hey, I know you have a lot on your plate, can I bring you a meal or can I help you do something? Can I watch the kids where you go grocery shopping or go? This weekend? It was Christmas shopping? Yes, that would be wonderful because I have no time to do any of that. And you can't expect people to just automatically know what you need or what you want. Sometimes you actually have to ask that of people. Yeah, and getting out of that uncomfortableness of asking for what you need. It's hard.

 

Nicole Winkler: But yes, and I think that also brings up another idea for me. We oftentimes go through life so much on automatic pilot like, Hey, how are you? And the automatic response is fine.

 

Robyn Burnett: I'm good.

 

Nicole Winkler: Yeah, how are you? Right? Oh, good. You know, how are the kids and we move on, but how are you, really? I find myself asking people those questions. Yeah. How are you? Comma, Really? Yeah.

 

Robyn Burnett: Question mark genuinely asking somebody how they're doing and look them in the eye. You can do this even on a virtual setting. Yes. Impress them. Ask them again. No. Seriously, though, how are you doing? Yes. And nine times out of 10, you're going to get a different response. The second time my mom always says, for me, it was three times because growing up, I was always that same way, too. She would fine. Yeah, I'm fine. And she's she'd always say by the third time, I'd start crying.

 

Nicole Winkler: Well, and that's the thing. It's like, Oh my gosh, this person is here and really care. Yeah, to know how I'm doing. So I've also practiced that a lot more this year when somebody asked me, How are you? I might say, Oh gosh, just really stressed out right now or really busy feeling a little overwhelmed or exhausted. Or, I mean, however, I'm really feeling or I am feeling great. I had, you know, I accomplished a lot this week. I'm feeling great about that, but I give more context to it in my answer, in hopes of when I look at somebody. It is. It's very like a point to kind of look, it's like, No, how are you?

 

Robyn Burnett: Well, and just asking the question and genuinely asking goes a long way, and it doesn't mean that somebody needs to get into an in depth response. Sometimes I don't know about you, but I just don't even have the energy to respond to people. I'm just like, Oh, my life is just, you're so tired, you know, and it's OK. And I just, I don't want to get into it, but just you being here with me right now. Yeah, and you asking me means the world. Yeah, thank you. Let's let's just hang out. I don't want to get into, you

 

Nicole Winkler: Know, we don't need to dig in,

 

Robyn Burnett: Right? And I think the same goes for if you're talking about an employer level with their employee or a peer to peer level at work, but just genuinely asking people how they're doing really can mean a lot. You never know what kind of impact that can make on someone, especially if they are more on that high end. You know, if you talk

 

Nicole Winkler: About just smiling at somebody. But like research tells us, smiling at somebody and saying hello increases people's moods. Yeah, and it does. It sets the tone for your day. You know, it's kind of like the mind is a dark room, and wherever you shine, the flashlight is what you're going to see for the most part. So like shiny and oh, that's very positive. Like, he smiled at me. That was, oh, that was uplifting. They noticed me. Yeah. And I think in this world of kind of everybody's kind of disposable and expendable. Everybody's so tired and everybody's so burned out. It's really nice to get that just genuine this like, Hey, I'm holding space with you. Yes, we don't have to get into it. Yep. I don't even know if I could handle it. Yeah. You know, because I have my own stuff that I'm going through or whatever. But I'm going to here. I'm here, and I'm going to hold that space with you. And I want you to know I just care.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah, I think it means a lot.

 

Nicole Winkler: Mm hmm. I agree. Thank you so much for being on today.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah, I thoroughly appreciate it. This is awesome. Would you come back? Oh, of course, yes. Yeah. We can always talk about more in depth things, you know, if you want to just focus on one thing.

 

Nicole Winkler: Mm hmm. Well, I know you have quite a library. Think of it as like a card catalog, which like, that's how old we are.

 

Robyn Burnett: Card catalog of the reference. I know, I know. Matt probably loves that reference, too.

 

Nicole Winkler: Yes. And so a whole card catalog of all the things that you've researched that you've presented on, you are a wealth of knowledge.

 

Robyn Burnett: You need something new to, you know, I'll read something. I'm like, Gosh, that that's interesting, and I want to dig a little bit deeper in it. So I'm back on this whole social media track. So if you want

 

Nicole Winkler: To, yeah, yeah. Ok, wait, can you? Can you give us a little teaser or a little information?

 

Robyn Burnett: Well, just the effects that social media is having on us and our youth. There's a new non-profit here, a newer it's called Next Gen Society. I don't know if you're familiar have heard of it, but I'm not familiar. I actually want and she'd be a great one for your podcast. But it's some really interesting stuff, and it's basically having groups. You can do it just in a work group, your friend group, or she's doing it with high schoolers to do a pledge to put down their smartphones for a week at a time. You know, take off certain apps and the amount of control that our phones and our apps have over us in our youth is just mind blowing. And what it's doing in creating anxiety and depression, it's it's really sad. So I yeah, it's something that I would love to talk more about. I'm certainly not an expert. I just love to talk about it.

 

Nicole Winkler: I would love to talk about I actually I don't know when I did that, Matt. It was on Matt's podcast.

 

Robyn Burnett: Yeah, you

 

Nicole Winkler: Did. Producer Yeah. Of this podcast. And so I am very passionate about that, and I would absolutely love to talk more about that. So we will get that scheduled. Robin will be back with us soon to talk more about social media and the impact and even technology as a whole because we know it's designed to suck us in. I think Matt and I had talked about it in the spin on addiction, which is extremely addictive. It is designed that way. And yes, what we're seeing in especially teenage females, but it's very prevalent in males as well. Yeah, they just cover it. But the research is starting to show us quite a bit more with males as well. But it is damaging and those very critical years too. Yeah. And if you think about it, adults have a hard time. Yeah, like I have a hard time when an alert comes on my phone, we're like, we're like a bunch of little havelock little humans here, like my phone buzzes and I take it out to look at it or I look at my watch or, you know, like, it's just this automatic response now that we don't even think about it right in the middle of a conversation like, yeah, huh. Yeah, OK. And then I'm right back here with you. Well, how are you supposed to feel? I'm connected to you if I do that, right? Right. So, yeah, we can get into a lot of different another time.

 

Robyn Burnett: Another bite.

 

Nicole Winkler: Yes. So thank you again for being on the show. I appreciate you very, very much now.

 

Robyn Burnett: I appreciate you. Thank you for

 

Nicole Winkler: All the work that you do in our community. Thank yeah. Thank you. Bye bye.

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Burnout, Compassion Fatigue, & Mental Health